7 November 2012
Getting Right Down To The XYZ Of It
RR asked:
How about what kind of learner are you? (Like....hands on, books, one-on-one teaching, listening to someone talk, figuring it out by yourself....what way of learning new things works best for you?)
I think that really depends what it is. As a young copper, doing my exams, it was books, then talking it over with my peers, to check we all understood things the same way. I need people to challenge me, quiz me, make me argue my points. Which is good, because that's what I get, in court.
But anything that is practical, it's got to be hands-on, with a bit of guidance, but I can't stand watching people demonstrate and not letting you get stuck in.
Computers that goes double for - can't cope with anyone who does things for you, to 'show you'. Need them to tell me what to do, but let me do it.
I'm not very good at listening to people talking in a teaching way - I zone out a bit.
But I'm also happy to just get stuck in and make my own mistakes. I know it's sometimes handy to learn from other people's, but sometimes the lesson sticks better when it's your own. Guitar playing, cooking, I just give it a go. Mistakes don't matter.
So, all that is what I try to keep in mind with Sherlock. Not doing things for him, letting him make mistakes, no matter how annoyed he gets at making them, letting him figure things out and only stopping him when it would be dangerous not to. But he has a fairly good capacity to listen, too, when he's interested. Although zero capacity for it when he's not...which we're working on.
I'm very proud of him today, for talking to the girl whose boat he thought was good.
And just to prove mistakes don't matter - I have no clue why this bloody thing has decided to highlight this entry. Sorry about that. Edited - Mycroft fixed it!
45 comments:
I have no clue why this bloody thing has decided to highlight this entry.
Ha! I honestly thought it was my eyes playing tricks on me (it's blue on blue, barely visible)! :D
Thanks for answering my question. :) Me, I'm good with most forms of being taught, but nothing sticks until I get my hands into it and mess around. That goes for exam-type learning, too--in grad-school I used to go home and type up my notes, then put them in outline form, then back into narrative form, and THEN I would know it.
Yeah, I made it the closest colour I could because it started out white and was horrible.
I love the fact that you tell Sherlock when you're proud of him and store it here for him to look back on, I heard two people at parents evening today chatting to each other about how proud they were of their kids but when the child walked towards them they stopped and told the child the teacher had said she daydreamed to much and she needed to work harder. It made me feel quite sad.
it's really interesting how different people learn things, I'm a get involved and try it kind of person but sometimes I think I should read a book or two first ;-)
It just depends, doesn't it? I mean, the firearms training, I wasn't going to ask to get stuck in and make mistakes :) cooking, I absolutely will.
As for Sherlock - it's so important, I think, to tell him how proud we are of him when he makes a bit of a breakthrough in understanding something. It certainly doesn't happen enough to a lot of kids. Or people of all ages.
I don't think you can tell adults you're proud of them or that they should be proud of themselves without risking them thinking you are treating them like a kid so its important that they already know inside themselves that people are proud of them :-)
(I have to admit to telling adults I'm proud of them and taking the risk though because I think its important)
It's awesome that you are willing to let Sherlock (and presumably Mycroft as well) make his own mistakes and learn from them. The number of times I've had to walk away, while saying "I'm in the living room if you need help"...I've heard that it gets easier over time but I'm 13 years into this thing and so far it hasn't.
Mistakes are really hard for me, which is more than a little strange since the way I learn best is by messing around with things until I understand it enough to go my own direction.
AnonyBob - Yeah, you have to get the tone right with adults - depending on the adult! Easy to tell my team I'm proud of them, but yeah, you tread a fine line to sounding condescending.
I'm a very visual learner, which means if I'm at a training session and the trainer does nothing but talk I'm not going to learn much. If we have discussion sessions that's how I will understand.
Just diving in to something new--I can't do that. I worry too much about making mistakes (you're not alone there, Kestrel!), and I freeze. So I have to either be taught first by a person or by reading everything I can get ahold of. But none of it will stick 'til I mess around with it.
Learning styles are really interesting to me because I taught for a while, and it was fascinating to figure out what I needed to do to make sure what I was teaching got through.
As for Sherlock - it's so important, I think, to tell him how proud we are of him when he makes a bit of a breakthrough in understanding something.
I could not agree more. It's wonderful that he's getting that.
Suppose it depends on your background. My learning curve as a kid was all mistakes, survived it all, just about. Got shouted at so much i became immune, I think.
I believe the style of the post resulted from text that you pasted into it. There is button in the editing section, a T with a red x next to it, that should remove the style.
Thanks Mycroft! I'd never even noticed the T with the cross.
I learn pretty easily from books, if it's just information, and I can follow a lecture without a problem. But if the material is really supposed to stick, I need to play with it. It took me years to learn that, because I could pass ordinary multiple guess tests without studying until well into high school. Heck, my father, who taught microbiology to medical students, once brought home one of his tests and let me and my sister take it and we got better scores than half his students. (My sister did way better than I did though.) The problem is retaining the information for more than a few months. That's why I'm a rereader, and why I say "use it or lose it" so often.
I'm glad you praise Sherlock when he's earned praise. Earned being the key word there. It's hard to strike the right balance with praise. None is terrible for kids, and constant praise turns out to be worse. From what we see here, you both get it right.
rsf
None is terrible for kids, and constant praise turns out to be worse
How?
Great job Mycroft :-)
I hate making mistakes when people are around to see them but I'm getting better at it and I actively encourage such things with my short people so they learn how to deal with it :-)
I'm not sure how you damage kids with praise RSF but maybe its possible.
I think you have to be careful how you praise them.
With Sherlock, I think it's important we let him know we're proud of him, and tell him how pleased we are, and reward him, when he shows us he learns something new. But you also have to make sure you're not building his ego up so much that he thinks he's better than everyone else. You just have to temper the praise with reminders that different people are good at different things, and help him understand that excelling in one field doesn't make you superior to any other being on the planet.
It's all about the carrot and the stick, isn't it, and balancing that out.
giving a kid an over inflated idea of themselves isn't the same as praise though. kids should be praised for a nice smile, a polite word, picking something up, tidying up, working hard and for just being them they shouldn't really have to 'earn' it. Praise gives kids pride it doesn't give them an ego unless they only get it for being the best at something or for being better than someone else, if they are praised for being them and all the different parts of themselves they don't feel the insecurity that leads to the need to be the best.
The fact that Sherlock is learning he doesn't need to be the best but you are still proud of him for what he does shows that to be true.
I see what you're saying Greg but I do kind of agree with anon. I thank my kids for being them every single day and I praise them for everything they do well however small but I don't think I'm giving them a big ego with it, obviously the proof of the pudding is many years away and I may be eating my words one day ;-)
Well, that's partly why I think Sherlock's lucky to have John around - he's a bit more free with praise than I naturally am. I don't know. There's praise and there's praise...and there's different sorts of reward. And what works for one kid won't for another.
Sherlock's ego is probably rather over developed. he has a huge amount of self confidence. We have to manage that gently, because it's great, but it can also be overwhelming.
He's come on loads though, even just changing years at school, his behaviour is so much better, his way of interacting with his peers, it's all a big learning curve for him, and it's daunting, going from just having Mycroft to being with children of his own age and similar abilities.
We're deeply proud of both the boys. Always.
I can't speak for rsf, but I think she may have had in mind something that upsets my mother quite a lot (my mother teaches first grade). There's a practice in American schools (and homes) to lavish mounds of praise on children--not when they've learned something, not when they've succeeded at something, not when they've worked hard at something, not when they've tried something new, not when they've done anything at all worthy of praise, but on all children all the time, regardless. It's...well, it's not good. It's led to a whole lot of children and young adults who have a strong sense of entitlement and no expectation of having to do anything to be rewarded. And worse, they don't have any real sense of accomplishment or well-earned self worth--how could they?
It's not universal, of course, but it's frighteningly wide-spread.
(I hope I need not add that this in NO WAY resembles the way you and John treat Sherlock and Mycroft?)
I can see I'm not phrasing myself well...
It's like this. Praising kids for real accomplishments is a good thing. Praising them for existing, not so much. And the wrong kind of praise can cause trouble too. So, for example, if everyone was saying "I'm sure your boat really was the best because you're the smartest" to Sherlock, when Sherlock knows that some of the other boats had aspects which were better, that would actually undermine his self-confidence. Telling Sherlock you're proud of him for trying hard, even if the results aren't what he thought he would get gives him motivation to keep trying hard.
And, if I recall correctly, constant praise either turns into background noise or turns into something that a kid wants so badly that they'll stop risking making mistakes to avoid losing it.
Dang, I don't have a copy of Nurture Shock anymore, but I think that's where I first ran across the research if you want to follow up, anon.
rsf
Thanks guys I think you've just theoried me into believing I'm damaging my kids ;-)
I can't imagine that, Anony! Besides, praising for small achievements is worlds away from praising everyone all the time no matter what they have or haven't done!
Sorry Anonybob! But if you're praising them (mostly) for doing and not being you're probably doing it right!
Although I rather like the idea of going to bed having been thanked for being there every day. :D
rsf
Anon - I've been thinking about this a lot, overnight, and I think we're sort of agreeing, really.
kids should be praised for a nice smile, a polite word, picking something up, tidying up, working hard and for just being them they shouldn't really have to 'earn' it.
See, to me, being polite, tidying, working hard, those all are ways to earn praise. Like, Sherlock gets praise if he gets in from school and puts his bag, shoes and uniform away neatly. We don't have to tell him to - not anymore - and he's not going out of his way to do something to earn the praise, but he does have to earn it.
I actually don't even know how I'd praise him when he hasn't done anything to earn it. I mean, if you're not saying 'Well done' or 'good boy' after an action/for a reason, then...well, why are you saying them? It's a bit redundant.
I'm not suggesting he has to make huge breakthroughs in science or achieve world peace before we praise him. But he knows what's expected of him - and if he does it, he'll get praised. If he does something more, like talking to his schoolmate about her boat yesterday, then that's above and beyond, and we'll make more of a fuss about it because it's important to give that positive reinforcement much more obviously when he's had a bit of a breakthrough.
I think we're all agreeing, really, just saying it in different ways.
it wasn't you I was questioning really Lestrade, its obvious that you do all those things with Sherlock. I'm like Pandabob I think but I think you are as well, praise and thanks go a long way to building a person. I can't see how its possible to praise things that aren't there or how you would suddenly find something to say about nothing but I think that might just be something I haven't experienced.
How old are your kids RSF? Do they struggle being with peers who have been over praised? I can see that might be hard to be near.
I think we're all agreeing that love is unconditional, anyway, even if we're struggling with our definitions of praise and 'earning' it.
Hows work Greg? going well I hope :-)
Oh and RR, RSF the ;-) at the end of my sentence was supposed to show I was kidding, sorry it wasn't clear. I'm reasonably confident I'm not totally screwing up my kids although as I said before only time will tell.
Having all sorts of fun being a verbal ounch bag for some scrote I arrested all morning.
Punch, not ounch
Learning new words for today's post? ;-)
Sorry you're having a tough one.
I'm a children's librarian ina public library, anon, and have been for 25 years. So my dataset is random, but not just based on a single family. I also try to keep up with the research... and am heartily amused at how the advice to parents has changed over time. Especially the last two centuries. So while I'm opinionated, I try to stay persuadable. If you have a source you think I should look at, I will!
L, "scrote" is also a great insult, but I probably shouldn't use that one. Wish you luck staying calm, because I know you can't hit back.
rsf
I can stay calm, don't worry. Years of soaking up abuse in this job. Really doesn't bother me much.
Probably why I stayed married so long the first time.
Having control over yourself is a very important skill especially when faced with idiot!
I hope he's sorted now and off being someone else problem for a bit :-)
Staying calm is probably good practice for dealing with seven year olds too.
If you're still looking for present ideas, check this site out. ;D
rsf
I think we're all agreeing, really, just saying it in different ways
This.
I hope you have less need for staying calm skills for the rest of the day. :)
I think it helps. I don't mind that he doesn't like me all the time. I don't mind that he gets in a huge strop and says I'm mean. As long as I don't genuinely think I have been, in which case I'd apologise, then I can wait for him to calm down and start talking to me again.
And I think he's learnt that I can be just as stubborn as he is :)
Heh. (And a genuinely valuable life lesson. :))
I think 'I don't mind that he doesn't like me all the time' is key here. You are his parent (or as near as damn it is to swearing you are) and that involves being desperately unpopular from time to time.
Too often people are two fixed on being their child's friend, what they need is a parent, they already (usually) have friends. That isn't to say that a parent should be unnecessarily harsh but if your first thought is 'if I make them do this they won't like me' then that is definitely a problem.
Ha, Anon, one of my mother's favorite phrases while we were growing up was, "I'm not your friend, I'm your mother." (She got to say it a lot. :D)
Anon - yeah. Although it is easier when there's two of you, I think. I joke with John about good cop bad cop, but it is important to me to know that if Sherlock genuinely doesn't understand what he's done/needs to do, and isn't talking to me, that he has a way of finding out. And that's a lot easier when there's someone on hand to be his guide through that.
You and John make such a good team, the best bit really is that you don't, in the face of battle, seem to have to work at it you take each others lead and get through the other side still on the same page and that's a hell of a trick! I know you talk about things after and discuss the good and bad of it but the fact that you are such a team at the time is brilliant and very good for the boys :-)
No, I just meant sometimes it's better to be surprised
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