Last post hit the 200 on comments, and I hate that.
I'll answer the questions I haven't though, over the next days. You lot ask some tough questions. It's quite scary that you think I might have answers. Making me think :)
Today, as I expect you know, I got called back in for questioning. I can sort of...divorce myself from the procedure. Think about it from their side. Calling me back in is what I'd have done, too. Which doesn't make it any easier, sitting the wrong side of the desk, trying to answer the hard questions.
Even know the tricks - calling me in just before lunch for a long session, maximum lack of comfort.
If I'm honest, it's not going as well as I'd like.
Sherlock's very stressed about it all. It's very difficult for him to understand that I just have to go through the system, and things take time.
John's...quiet. Can't blame him. There's not much to say. But also just...holding everything together, letting Mycroft know what's happening, keeping Sherlock occupied, shielding me from the bluntest of Sherlock's questions. Just...being there for me.
151 comments:
We're trying to get you to think about something else that was the remit ;-)
Sorry things aren't going as well as you would like but I'm very glad that you're beginning to let John just be there for you. I'm sure he feels much more useful when he knows you're ok with what he's doing.
I hope you don't have many more (if any at all) experiences of the other side of the desk.
Anony
You have our love and concern, from over here at this dinnertable in the US. I just described what you're going through to my bf and he is... quite upset about what you're going through. Hang in there, all of you. If you need us to provide happy distraction, we'll do our best.
I would have held off if I'd realize it was the 200th comment-- sorry about that!
I sincerely hope "not as well as I'd like" doesn't mean anything more than, well, the obvious--that it's all horrible and stressful and needs you to be over with you cleared yesterday, please.
I have nothing useful to suggest other than what I said before--try to stay busy and close to the people you love and who love you. But I am praying for the best possible outcome in the shortest feasible amount of time.
...and needs to be over with you cleared yesterday... (don't know where the extra "you" came from)
Yeah, it's good - it's working.
Sometimes...I don't know, it's hard. Feels like we dance around each other, both scared of hurting the other's feelings. And maybe we should just...talk about it.
But other times I'd rather have a comfortable silence than an awkward conversation.
I don't know. We manage. We're both getting used to each other, still, I suppose.
You generally only need the awkward conversation once though you know. Then it stops being awkward.
Talking is always the best way even though, and maybe because, its the hardest thing to do.
Anony
I made that sound bad. We do talk, a lot. I don't know if it stops being awkward. Less awkward, maybe. I certainly spend a lot of time second guessing myself, though. Don't know about John. Can't expect him to know how I feel when I don't know myself.
I don't feel like I should be saying this here. I mean, I'll talk to him.
Well, if you really want more questions...
Do you think it's the most important thing to have a good romantic partnership? I mean, it certainly seems like it could be wonderful, but what if a person never finds someone they feel romantic about, should they try to just pair up with someone they like but don't really feel in love with?
I can't speak from personal experience, but that sort of communication seems like the sort of thing you work out over time--and one year really isn't much time. You two seem to be doing fine, better than fine, from where I sit.
There's a difference between talking and 'talking' one you do every day and the other you do when there's a problem.
Second guessing is human nature we're all guilty ;-) try not to panic about it :-)
Anony
Less awkward, maybe.
...It'll probably still be a bit awkward. Sorry about that.
Really really nothing you have to be sorry about.
Feel like we're both trying to...tiptoe through each other's pasts trying not to wake up any bad memories. And that's hard.
But it's worth it, right? I mean, I don't know, for me it's worth it.
It's worth it. More than worth it.
Good :)
And you know you can't ever make me feel like other people have before, right? Because at best they haven't cared, and at worst they've wanted to hurt me and I know that neither of those things is true of you. So, yeah, you shouldn't worry about it.
Thank you. That...really helps actually. A lot.
Yeah? Good.
Feel like I've dumped you in that swamp we were in on the moors sometimes - impossible to navigate through, and no maps available. Feel like I haven't given you a fair chance.
I'm learning, if slowly. And everyone's past is like that, isn't it? Mine feels like that even to me most of the time, and I lived it.
Yeah, probably. I know there are things that bother me that probably shouldn't, and then things that don't that I feel like should. And some total surprises.
Bed? Thought we could do about 5 miles in the morning, if you're up for it?
Bed, yes. You may have to wake me up, but I'll be up for it.
I'll set Sherlock on you.
Talking helps.
But talking still stays awkward, if to a lesser degree - it's kind of like cleaning an attic after years and years of things just being stuffed there haphazardly and the doors being locked again: when you start cleaning it up it's awkward and full of dust and it makes you sneeze and your eyes water and sometimes you feel like throwing up. But sometimes you find long-forgotten treasures there. And having the space clean is nice as well.
Talking about personal things, past experiences and so on is very similar. The more you talk about things the easier it gets but there will always be things that will be difficult to start talking about. Especially with people who matter.
Hope your run today was good. And that your shoulders were not too tense.
*sending happy thoughts your way*
RR - no, not as well as I'd like means there's evidence I thought would help corroborate my version of events which hasn't.
Anyway, off to drop Sherlock at school and then run a long way.
L - sorry to hear that. I imagine it must feel a bit like a roller coaster at the moment, the point where your stomach drops as you go over the top and you rush downhill. Glad to hear that you and John were able to talk. Hope the run helps relieve some of the physical tension.
Sacred Oak Anon - thank you for responding to my question - I appreciated it.
Greg - I... I hope that the evidence is, at worst, neutral. I know the process has to happen, but it seems like they're stressing you out on purpose and assuming things before letting the facts speak for themselves. I hope the talk with Mrs T goes well and that the run helps quiet things in your head.
-A from NW
Greg - I hope the evidence is, at worst, neutral. I know it's just procedure, but it feels like they're assuming things before letting the evidence speak for itself. I can't imagine the stress you're under.
I hope the talk with Mrs T goes well and the run helps quiet your thoughts.
-A from NW (not sure why my comments keep getting eaten...)
Thanks.
Run was good, yeah. Hard work. And now back to painting.
Dammit, L. I can't even imagine how frustrating that must be. Hope the run managed to work some of that off.
And I hope it's okay for me to say that you're showing levels of strength and courage and patience I can't dream of approaching. As is John. You both have all my admiration.
Right, so how's the paint job looking?
Paint's going well. John is fuelling us with tea and I've just stopped to make omelettes for lunch.
Yummmmmmm, omelettes!
Argh, sorry, L. That's frustrating, I'm sure. All good wishes that it gets cleared up soon.
Bronwyn - that's lovely, I hadn't read that one before. Thanks.
RR - that makes so much more sense than pain, I can't imagine how I got them mixed up. Well. Maybe I can, but it still makes more sense. Thanks for finding that.
L - good, I'm glad it's helping. Did the run help too? I think I feel a little clearer after that. And the poetry thing...it was just easier than hauling books around the world with me.
...I just put that on the wrong post. Sorry, everyone. I'll go put it on mine.
You're very welcome!
there's evidence I thought would help corroborate my version of events which hasn't.
Oh, bollocks :-(
Yeah, Nameless. That about sums it up.
Just have to say aaarrrrgggghhh at the bloody evidence :-(
I know us believing in you means little really (when it comes to solving this current problem) but we all do :-)
Anony
I hope the evidence is, at worst, neutral.
Yeah, it is. I want to give in and sound like a thousand criminals I've arrested and say "It is because I haven't done nuffink! I'm innocent!"...But, yeah, heard it all before. And it doesn't mean a thing.
I mean, they explained it to me and it all made perfect sense, why it wasn't going to help me.
SH - yeah, a bit rollercoastery. I've been really enjoying my time with John, and doing the decorating and being there to drop Sherlock off and pick him up. And then it hits me why I've got all this time again and...yeah.
Right. I haven't slept enough. The internet is at my fingertips. I went looking...
So now I feel completely unqualified to answer these questions:
Question: There seems to be a lot of imaginative writing around the web about gay male sex written by straight women. How close/far is that sort of thing from reality?
And then an addition from someone else:
It's not just on the web; it's also in published gay romance novels. Or, quite often, any gay character in any romance storyline...
So, I didn't do that much research, so I can't exactly say what I saw was a fair reflection of...well, anything really.
But there was a lot of...how shall I say it? Traditional sex. As in, a certain part of the male anatomy going into a certain orifice. I think 100% of what I saw, that was a feature. That and fingers. Which I'd say was probably not representative of the population at large. I've known at least as many - if not more - gay blokes who weren't really into that. Just as happy with...well, hands, between the legs, mouths, all sorts of other things.
It's quite a hard thing to talk about, given the readership of this blog... but yeah, a lot of guys aren't into that sort of sex. And a lot of guys who are might enjoy that much preparation, but it's not necessarily necessary...once you're pretty relaxed with a partner you trust.
A lot more lube than I've ever known most men use for the more solo acts. I mean, I've never been with a circumcised bloke - and I can imagine you might need it then. But most men I know who've got a foreskin just let that do the work, so to speak. Maybe a bit of lube, or spit, or just doing it in the shower or something.
Um, yes, so...like I said, my sample size wasn't massive. But those were my first impressions.
Hope that sort of answers the question, Anons? Only my point of view, obviously.
It answers mine (i'm the first Anon) very well, thanks! That's really what I was wondering bout.
That must have made interesting nighttime reading, L. :)
How did the test go, John? And how was the ride after?
It went all right. The ride afterward was much more fun.
'all right'... meaning he passed, and now has his certificate safely tucked away to take to his practical test next week...yeah. :)
Heh heh--new definition of "all right" being "great". :)
Well, as L said before, it would've been pretty surprising if I hadn't passed.
Still.
D'you feel ready for the practical next week?
Well done john. Won't be long till you're as much a biker as lestrade :-)
Anony
Still proud of you :)
RR - yeah, I think I do actually. The lessons were good, and of course it's easier than learning to drive for the first time. I think it'll go okay.
:)
Great!
You'll be brilliant. Can take mine out any time if there's anything you want to practice.
Now there's an offer...
You'll have to go and buy yourself some L plates if you want to ride it on the road, of course...
But if we went somewhere off road you could even see what it's like to ride with me on pillion, if you wanted, as you haven't done that yet.
I'm just amazed you're willing to share. ;)
That'd be nice though, yeah, if you'd be okay with it. I remember you having some doubts about riding with me...
Willing to share everything with you.
It's not riding with you, it's with anyone! I'm just not a very good pillion. But I've seen you arrive back from your lessons, you look confident enough.
And I'll be ready to put my foot down fast... :)
Ha! All right then. Sounds like fun. For me, at least.
And I'll hang onto the bars, not hug you like you do me. Partly to make sure you concentrate on riding, and partly so I don't break your ribs when I get jumpy.
It'll be good practice for you. And the bike'll feel different. Just don't pop a wheelie and dump me off the back.
Oh damn, and wheelies were first on my to do list...
Ha, I just mean, when you've got a fat lump like me on the back, the front wheel will lift without much acceleration. You twist the throttle like you do when it's just you and you'll feel how light it goes - and how little steering you've got.
But you'll find all that out for yourself :)
I'm sure the whole experience will be very educational.
Yeah.
Finding out the outcome of one of your team's big cases from the BBC news is a bit of a punch to the gut, apparently.
Sal, if you lot see this and are out on the lash somewhere, buy everyone a drink from me and I'll pay you back.
I'm sorry, L--not that the case was settled obviously, but, you know.
That sucks L not a nice way to find stuff out that :-( good on your team for sorting the case though :-)
I can't believe you're going to share your bike, love does funny things to people I guess ;-)
Anony
Greg - I hope you're raising a pint with them. You're a good police officer who leads a good team. You'll be back with them soon. But yeah...finding out stuff you usually know before the media via the media...I can only imagine how disorienting that feels...
So does that mean that John would have to change plates every time he shared your bike? :)
~A from NW
Yeah. Two years we worked on that case. I mean - I'm really glad it's over, but...I'd have gone to court for the verdict, if I'd been on duty. So to hear it on the 6 o'clock news just makes me feel... I don't know. Good result, anyway.
A - Actually, because he hasn't got his licence yet he's not on my insurance - but he can be if he wants, next week - and then he won't need plates anyway. He can't go out at the moment without an instructor. But we can go off-road and practice, no problem.
Greg - The situtation you're in is all sorts of screwed up. So if John doesn't mind being the Internet's proxy hugger... :)
Anyway, that sounds remarkably fast for insurance paperwork (but I haven't had to add anyone onto my policy, so maybe that's normal speed). Why do I feel that there will be an off-road practice session, perhaps complete with a picnic, in your near future?
~A from NW
A - it's just a phonecall here. I'd just call my insurance people, give them the Doc's details and it's done.
And yeah, we should try to get out.
Finding out on the news is rubbish but you should be proud of the work you've done over the last two years to get the result :-)
Anony
Thanks.
You seem like a particularly cheerful person, Anony. It's good to have you around.
You just don't know me well enough yet ;-)
Anony
Ha. Right. We'll consider ourselves warned!
I can do cheerful and even helpful sometimes but other times who knows ;-)
I do tend to be nice to nice people so I look forward to being nice and cheerful towards you and John for as long as you'll allow me to butt into your blogs ;-)
Anony
Butt in?
Without you lot we're a couple of old queers blogging about dogs, sprogs, crims, germs, two wheels and tasty meals.
At least this way it doesn't feel like we're shouting into an abyss. You lot are very entertaining, not to mention kind and supportive.
*throws pillow at L*
What do you think we come for?
(Yes, that, but also the rest of it. :))
You make this place sound so appealing I wonder why we all keep visiting you ;-)
You're not bad in the entertaining and kind department yourselves and I'm sure answering difficult questions for people counts as supportive. :-)
Anony
Why do you come here? No idea :)
Ignore me, I'm not in a fit mood to be around anyone tonight.
then stay right here and let us cheer you up :-)
Anony
It's understandable. It's also not required that you be in a good mood, actually, I think if you could manage to be in a consistently good mood at the moment that would be really worrying.
I don't know if any of us could cheer you up right now, but we're here with you (all of you).
Lancs. Anon
Silly man. We come because we want to hear about dogs, sprogs, crims, germs, two wheels and tasty meals. And you. And John.
(I had to look up sprogs, but I gather Sherlock and Mycroft are covered by that, if I got the right definition.)
Because we care about you all and then some. So forget about being ignored. Not gonna happen. :P
Thanks, all of you.
Lancs Anon - don't mind you lot, I can always slope off and escape you :)
RR - yes, sprogs does indeed cover the boys.
I think today's just the first time I really feel...left out, I suppose. Because I'm not even allowed to call up my team or anything. A proper pariah today.
And John and Sherlock have both been so nice, sort of makes me feel more emotional, I suppose.
That's completely understandable and after a day like today you have every right to want to hide under your pillow, but it won't be for long you'll be back at work soon I'm sure.
People being nice really gets under your emotional defences doesn't it? So much easier not to have emotions when people are being horrible to you but it's a much worse life without nice people isn't it?
I would say get John to give you a hug from me but I don't know if that's the right thing to say right now.
Anony
Nothing wrong with emotional.
I'm sure your team is not feeling too good about not being able to contact you either (Sally especially) but I doubt that helps. It has to hurt. I wish... Well. I'm really sorry, L.
So glad for such a great result, L, and you know a lot of your hard work went into it, as well. I'm sure it's rotten having to be on the sidelines for such a hard-won success, but you'll be back there with it soon.
And yes, we're happy to be here - it's a joy to share your joys, and not a burden to share your burdens. Happiness is multiplied and sadness divided, hopefully tipping the balance in the right direction!
Anony - yes, on both your points. Very easy to deal with people being nasty. But it is much nicer to have lovely people in my life.
Maz - that's a really nice way of putting it, thanks.
You're a good man L. Bed time don't you think though? you must have decorating to complete tomorrow.
Anony
Excellent result by the team Lestrade. And yeah, people being nice doesn't help keeping those pesky emotions at bay, does it?
So rather than being nice and making you feel emotional, I'll ask a question. Genuine question, although it's probably going to sound like I'm stupid or taking the piss. How does one decide when to stop using condoms in a relationship? What's the etiquette around all of that?
(The reason why it's a genuine question: my current relationship started around the time that "safe sex" was only just starting to be thought about in my part of the het world. I've only ever used condoms as emergency contraception)
Nameless - I'm not sure there's an etiquette, exactly. And I think it depends very much on the people. I mean, I think John and I are really lucky with the time we met one another, and our professions, in as much as we'd both been tested since our last partners. So we just...discussed it, in the midst of a lazy cuddle. (I'll admit it was slightly prompted by the fact I hate condoms. I mean, wonderful things as far as what they do...but God, I hate them.)
But I'm also very aware that we're both in what are considered 'dangerous' professions, as far as coming into contact with potential infections. There's not a single time I search a suspect without being scared I'll get a dirty needle in my hand or something, and with John working again, there's always the potential for something to happen. So we both need to rely on the other to take sensible precautions as far as possible, and be honest with one another if we do feel like we've been put at risk.
If you've never been tasted, or meet someone new and intend there to be a serious relationship, I'd just be really open about it, now. I mean, for me, that wouldn't be a difficult thing. I'd explain to them that I wanted us both tested and go together.
I've sort of been through it all - from the very beginnings, when we honestly didn't understand what was happening, how you caught it, and people went from one extreme to another - refusing to eat off the same crockery to thinking 'hell, we're all going to die anyway, what does it matter?'. I've made stupid mistakes when I've been too drunk to think, and lived with the worry afterward, and I've been cheated on, so even though I thought I was safe, I wasn't, and had to deal with just how violated that made me feel.
So I'd have to go back to the first answer - depends on the people :)
Oh, you lot are really really NOT just "a couple of old queers." I've met and worked with and been friends with old queers, and you're not them. You are not, frankly, whiny or self-centered or obsessed enough with your upholstery or forcing paperwhites or edging your gardens to be old queers.
Hot 40something professional queers with a family? Yup, definitely. And maybe in _training_ to be old queers someday? Go for it.
To be fair to old queers, though, it used to be a lot harder to find acceptance and make a family as a gay man, and a lot of those older men and women lost much of their generation to AIDS. I get why they can be whiny and self-centered. But that sort of old queer is still darned hard to connect with at times, and I am frustrated when some of my younger gay male friends emulate that-- my generation Y friends have had it easier, but it's apparently more fun to whine than start grappling with the way the wealthy white gay mostly-male elite ignores or excludes the poor, the less educated, the disabled, queers of color, religious queers, and of course bisexuals aren't proper queers and trans people are not okay unless they happen to also be drag queens.
Sorry. I'll get off the soapbox now. :) I am, of course, a young bi passing-as-straight whippersnapper who owes a great deal to the stuff those old queers fought for, even though they frustrate me sometimes.
Aww man, and I also sound like a total jerk after your mention of all the fear of the time when we didn't know what was killing gay people, or how it was transmitted, or whatever. :( Sorry, I should have said it to the empty room rather than dumping it in a comment.
I hope you don't mind me asking, AftSO--and of course you don't have to answer--but why are you passing as straight? (I'm not asking in a "how dare you" way at all, but in an "I'm curious" way.)
Re: The Q&A--I just want to say:
Thank you, everyone, for asking such interesting questions--and thank you, L, for taking on the answers so openly and honestly. I don't know enough to know what to ask, but I'm learning a lot.
Please don't worry. Dumping is what the blogs are good for. And I've known the sort of people you talk about in the past - and know the sort of young money-to-burn gays who seem to ignore that every 'right' they've got was earned by others being fearless enough to stand up against what was wrong. I've heard people of both generations saying outrageous things about the other.
And everyone's allowed to be frustrated at anyone else once in a while :)
sorry, disobeying orders...don't know where the time goes sometimes.
And you're right, I do.
Well, if you need company (or badger stories), you know where to find it. :)
But I hope you manage to sleep.
It answers my question as well (I'm the second Anon). Thank you!
May as well answer this since I'm still up (although it's had two answers already I think even though I can't seem to find them now), since I assume it was meant for me. I know it wasn't meant for L. ;)
Firstly, I get "het" and "gay", but "bi" I find hard to understand. Not in a derogatory sense, but in the sense that I don't understand why anyone wouldn't like marmite. So does being bi mean you see both male and female as equal or what?
I think, given both the answers I read were different from each other and different from mine, that it might just be a bit different for everyone (can't say I've previously discussed it with other people), so this is the way it is for me, and I wouldn't presume to answer for anyone else.
When someone's male or female just isn't...let's say, the deciding factor. It's a factor in who I find attractive, in what I notice about people, but it's equally weighted with a lot of other things. I mean, some people find green eyes, for example, more attractive than other colours, but no one says, 'Oh, I couldn't date her, she's got blue eyes.' (Well, probably someone, somewhere, says that, but...)
Maybe that's a bad analogy; I don't know, because really, I don't understand what it's like to just be attracted to one or the other any more than you get what it's like to be attracted to both. I suppose what it comes down to in the end is that there aren't a lot of physical characteristics that would put me off someone I liked, and their gender doesn't even make the list.
I hope that helps, at least a bit. Not really used to thinking about this, let alone talking about it, so feel free to ask more questions if, as I fear, I haven't been terribly clear.
PS: I can help you out on the marmite question though: because it's horrible. :P
Did I mention I'm a librarian, and therefore nearly a compulsive answerer of questions? :)
Oh, well, posting here, I'm not passing as straight, at least not after this past week. And I realize that's a weird phrase when talking about bisexuality, because most people who are bisexual are dating one person at a time, either a man, or a woman, and most people will presume them to be either heterosexual or homosexual based on that.
But still, I notice what I'm _not_ making visible, a lot. In most of my interactions in the average week, with people who don't know me well enough to know otherwise, I'm seen as a woman who mentions her boyfriend a fair bit. That I have dated women, may date them again, and am still quite actively _attracted_ to women does not come up. Moreover, because I work at a women's college, it's better _not_ to mention it for the most part, because it's just too easy to say something that is going to sound like me being sketchy and macking on our undergrads. This may just sound like being private, and appropriate, at work, and that's fine, but I'm frequently aware that what I'm doing is a sort of passing, of claiming membership in the group with more power.
Of course, now that you've asked this question, I'm realizing that I am pretty openly a queer ally at work, and I do have some official signifiers on display at work, but the bi pride flag on my office bulletin board and the rainbow ribbon on my backpack and the LGBT safe and welcoming space logo on my office door are all fairly subtle. My appearance and mannerisms are a little indicative of possibly being queer, but I do a lot of IT, so... frankly there are a lot of women who are that butch in IT who are straight.
Does that answer your question? Does it raise more questions? My answers often do....
Can I do anything to help you fall asleep, John? I can be really dull... :)
You're very kind, L. No really, you are. Thank you.
Read a marmite label out loud?
Yes, thank you. In retrospect, it was a really intrusive question that I shouldn't have asked, sorry. It was just that I could think of some rather painful reasons and I was a bit worried--I'm glad none of them applied. It really does sounds a lot more like keeping your private life private in a work environment, as you said.
He doesn't want to be sick, he wants to be asleep!
Nah, I'm all right, thanks. Just reading a bit before I give it another go. And eating garlic olives, which probably won't help, but they are delicious.
they are delicious
That's what my one sister's kids say. I say I wouldn't want to deprive them. Or you. :)
Mmmm, no wonder you smell garlicky.
I'm glad you chimed in here, Doc. I don't understand what it's like to just be attracted to one or the other any more than you get what it's like to be attracted to both. - I think a lot of bi/queer folks are somewhere in that neighborhood.
I thought I was straight until I got to university and met somebody who IDed as bi because I honestly didn't realize there was an option like that. Since I'd fancied boys then I must be straight, right? Luckily I did meet her, or I'd have been even more conflicted when I developed a terrible and unrequited crush on one of my friends/roommates. Ended up dating a cute dykey metalhead (still am) and being maid of honor at my previous crush's wedding, so that worked out. I still fancy pretty men and women and genderqueer folk.
I put my 2 cents on your question on the last page, SH.
Morning, Lestrade. What's on the schedule for today?
Also, how do you think modern police services are diong with the whole queer cops thing?
(Repost of said 2 cents, as it doesn't seem to be showing up. If duplicate, sorry.)
Since you've indicated you'd be open to it, I'll jump on the "bi" question as well.
I ID as queer (as does my partner). The way I see it really is quite simple, but this is after eight years (uh...wow, when did that happen) of getting used to the idea. I'm really, seriously attracted to very few people. Some of them have been men (about 3), some women (2, including my lady), some cis, some trans, with less binary identities. I fancy a number of people - actors and such - just for their looks (which most everybody does) and they are likewise not all representative of one gender or sex. I was talking to a guy friend once when we both got distracted by a lovely woman in a corset with large..."tracts of land", I've spent an evening debating the merits and usefulness of the mouth on a male actor with female friends. Equal opportunity perv, thanks. ^_^ I'm wired to appreciate the options, that's all. It's not necessarily a matter of male and female as equal, though...that's not a bad thing. Some folks who ID as Bi/pan/queer/whatever are more attracted emotionally to men and sexually to women or vice versa. Some people sort of switch off or go through cycles when they're primarily attracted to women and secondarily to women and vice versa. Some people see it as being attracted to the soul or personality or whatever before the body. Somebody may be only into redheads with blue eyes and not particularly bothered about the plumbing that comes along with it. It varies.
I have never been intimate with a guy, but I don't consider myself a lesbian, just as I wouldn't consider myself straight if I'd never been with a woman. It just so happens that the first person I dated...well, it's been over four years, we're still quite in love and we're planning to get married someday. (Though it'll likely not be legally recognized, because hey, neither of us can pee standing up very well and that totes matters[/frustration].)
Morning.
Well, I can really only answer for the Met, I guess.
I think they're trying... almost too hard, sometimes. But I think, as with the more obvious (by which I mean public) issues around racism from some officers, that they're telling people what they can and can't think without really working so much on why those thoughts are wrong, if you get me.
You can't just say to someone 'you can't think like that' and have them magically stop thinking it.
And some people just don't even begin to get the issue.
When my DCI was sort of forced to acknowledge that it was now common knowledge I was gay he said 'so you'll be wanting to join the gay club, then' - meaning the Met's Gay Police Association - as if now I was out at work then I couldn't possibly just carry on as I'd always done.
It's a bit like the laws against hate crimes. Sometimes it feels like the decision makers think 'well, we'll make it a crime and then the people will know we care' and when you point out it still happens, there's a sort of general shrug of 'yes, but we've officially said it's not okay, doesn't that make you feel better?'
Sorry, that's a bit of a ramble. I might be more coherent later.
...my point about the GPA being that my DCI seems to be of the school of thought that the met have been kind enough us let us have a club, therefore by him acknowledging that he's sort of 'done his bit', and if I've got issues, that's not his problem.
And I'm sure the GPA give plenty of people good support. I just don't feel I need to do anything different than I've always done. It's not me who's changed, it's my colleagues' perception of me.
It wasn't an order just a suggestion :-) I'm glad there were people to keep you company.
Hope you got some sleep because if not god knows where all the paint will end up ;-)
Hope you have a productive day.
Anony
Thank you all for your answer to my question about being bi. Especially Doc, hope you didn't feel obliged to answer; I knew it was your sphere rather than L's, but thought that knowing you so well he might have wanted to answer. Anyway, all your answers have been very helpful and I do "get" what it's about much more now. As RR said it's really good to have somewhere we can discuss things (and admit our ignorance) without being judged.
I led our Lent group at church a couple of days ago and the question of people being gay came up. I stated my own position that people should be allowed to follow their own inclinations and was surprised at the level of acceptance there was, given that these were all older people and those who would be expected to be of a conservative outlook. Yes, there were reservations, but it was a very positive discussion.
And on another matter, L, I'm really sorry that you are cut off from so much of your life, like others I hope it won't be for too much longer. *offers whatever you'll accept in the way of internet hug*
Thank you for the reply, Lestrade. It's sort of weird, but given I'm in the situation of both having had very many partners, but also of being in a very long-term monogamous relationship, this very common part of a sexual relationship is one that I've completely missed.
Sorry if the question brought back bad memories.
If you've never been tasted
I'm saying nothing...
Lestrade > "It's not me who's changed, it's my colleagues' perception of me."
That could be why you'd need a support group sadly. Not that you have to of course, I'm just saying, I don't thing the GPA is strictly for new converts :)
But I do get what you're saying about your boss though...
Small Hobbit > I'm curious, why were people being gay discussed in your Lent group ? (People are really not as serious about Lent here, my mum goes to church regularly and she's involved and all, but I don't think she's doing anything special for Lent. So Lent group are a bit mysterious to me)
Anon from Paris
You can't just say to someone 'you can't think like that' and have them magically stop thinking it.
No, you really can't. Laws aren't useless--in the long term it does help to bar anti-any group behaviors and to stop giving official sanction to hate--but it's only a step, not a solution. (And not the easiest step to accomplush either--look at how the gay marriage issue has gotten so hysterical--and I don't mean funny--in the US.)
I can't in-the-gut understand why it makes any difference to people, what someone else's sexuality is. Really, I just can't. I mean, you can say yes or no to anyone regardless of their sex, what possible difference can it make to you who they're asking? Undeniably it does to a great many people, but WHY? It's completely baffling to me and always has been.
(If that's particularly incoherent, I'm only just barely not-asleep, sorry.)
Do you think you'll be finishing up the painting in the bedroom today, L?
Yeah, it's done.
Sorry, not having a good day today.
Nothing to be sorry about.
Can we help? Did something more happen? (Not that "more" is needed.)
Have you been sleeping on the living room floor all week? I can imagine that thrown off sleep wouldn't be helping keep on an even footing dealing with everything else. At least once it's done you'll have a spiffy bedroom to return to.
L - just to say, thinking of you.
SH
You've finished decorating your bedroom all by your own hands, No doubting the room belongs to you now :-)
Not a good day for a specific reason or because a day with your own mind sucks in general at the minute?
John and Sherlock will be home soon to admire your handy work, be sure to smile when they tell you what a good job you did rather than make some kind of comment about it being nothing OK.
Anony
L - want to go for a ride? We've got a little extra time - Mrs T got a biologist to come in and talk to them about the pond after school today.
(And if you need to snarl and snap and break things, you two could probably find a nice quiet place where you can do that without feeling guilty after.)
Yeah, that'd be nice, John.
Okay. Home in about two minutes. I love you.
Enjoy the ride, the pair of you! Don't know what the weather's like in the Metropolis, but it's definitely spring like here
Lancs. Anon
RR - no, don't feel like that. Whenever I get angry and feel any sort of violence it just feels like there's a bit of my Dad's personality trying to get out, and I won't bloody let it.
I hear you.
Hope the ride helps.
Thanks, all of you. Off to find somewhere quiet for a ride, and John to have a bit of practice.
Maybe this isn't the time to tell you how I misread that, then...
He's riding like he's been doing it for years. Very impressed.
You two are going to look awfully cool, riding side by side... :)
Got to agree RR, that's some image :)
Lancs. Anon
DW - you're not going to corrupt the Lestallion with your thoughts are you?
Parisian Anon - my church holds groups every Lent. This year we've begun by discussing the decline in respect for authority, morals etc - hence the discussion on being gay, along with a number of other matters.
So, Sherlock, was the biologist interesting? Did he tell you anything new about what to expect will come to live in the pond?
She gave us a big chart on the wall with insects and we can mark off what months they come and live in the pond and she gave us a plastic thing that floats and we can put it on the water near the edge and then count how many insects are in it and then guess how many there might be in the whole pond and she told us about what different plants would make different animals come and live in the pond and there were DVDs of the life cycle of frogs and newts and lots of other things and she's going to come back when more things are living in it.
Now, THAT is the right sort of biologist to have come by! Are you all planning out what sort of plants to put around the pond, then?
Bad memories...yeah, but really not your fault. Don't worry about it. Glad it was sort of helpful. I think, like so much about relationships, it's all about trust - both in what the person you're with is saying and what they're doing.
Sadly it's a growing problem in the gay community now that younger people don't feel it's as important. And it's hard to teach not preach.
I swear my technology makes me say these things....
I'm just coming by to say that you folks are all awesome.
L, reading what you said about anger and violence and your Dad's personality made me think of something Thich Nhat Hanh says about taking care of anger.
He imagines feelings of anger as a crying child, and imagines a mother taking that crying child into her arms to comfort it. Once the child has been comforted, the mother thinks about what may make the child feel better: a diaper change? food? a nap? But the comforting comes first, so that the mother can think more clearly about what the child may need to make it feel better.
So for you, perhaps taking all of the things you're feeling out for a motorcycle ride was the mental equivalent of taking a fussy baby for a ride in its car seat to help it get to sleep. I hope it was refreshing.
I have never been intimate with a guy, but I don't consider myself a lesbian, just as I wouldn't consider myself straight if I'd never been with a woman. It just so happens that the first person I dated...well, it's been over four years, we're still quite in love and we're planning to get married someday.
I think this is an important thing that lots of people miss out on, with the love of labelling things society has. And I include myself in that. I label myself as gay. I've never slept with a woman, and whilst every once in a while I see a woman who I think is put together rather nicely, it's not quite the same as when I see a bloke and think the same. Different emotions. Different physical reactions. Different thoughts.
But I couldn't ever promise I'll always be gay - just that at the moment, the evidence points that way. Links in with the whole sliding-scale of sexuality I talked about before. Until someone builds that time machine, I can only tell people what I have been, not what I will be.
Sherlock, that sounds fantastic. Did the DVD include what frogs sound like? My best friend was out last night listening to frogs along a route as part of the north American amphibian monitoring program. People all over record what frogs they can hear and when. They never have to see the frogs to know which ones are around. She said the early frogs have just started calling around us.
Ha, so on an unrelated subject to this post but about those barefoot running shoes there was a discussion about several posts back (these): I've just met a new instructor in the gym and she was preparing for her class and she was putting on these Vibram shoes (with fingered socks), the discussion about them came back to me and I asked her about running in them.
She is very enthusiastic about them and says that they do not spread toes too far apart or rub in between the toes uncomfortably. Only when running on gravel she said she has to stop and pick any little stones from between her toes with her hand because it's impossible to just shake them loose. She also warned me that calves get double workout, because one cannot land on the heel, it's too jarring for ankles and knees, so when running one lands on the toes and basically soften the landing with calf muscles - and then you have to spring forward, using the very same muscles again, just in opposite direction.
She said that she could run 1/2 Marathons in usual shoes without problems, but that in Vibrams she has to land on her toes and can run up to 5 kms max before it gets too much for her legs, calves especially. But otherwise she was very happy about them, said they were durable and very very light...
You know, L, seeing as you've finished the bedroom...how's the living room looking? The floors? The halls?
(In the spring, which is in less than three weeks, by the way (yay!), my thoughts turn to redecorating. It's more fun than cleaning.)
CR - I have tried a pair on, and they were comfy. I'm just not sure I could change my running style easily. So...maybe when I'm fitter, and it's less about trying to get the miles under my belt, then I could get some and do short runs with those, and longer ones in my old trainers, and slowly change that balance until my body can deal with it.
RR - Most of the flat is okay, really. I guess the stairway could do with a bit of attention.
AftSO - I'm...not entirely sure I quite get the analogy. But it did help, a bit.
I've done a new post. Tried to answer some more questions, for those of you who asked and haven't been answered.
Hmmmm, stairways....
(It's not just me picking on you, by the way--I am also pushing my mother to get the paint testers for her living room/dining room ASAP, and will be painting the swatches immediately, so she really gets in the painters. :) ) (She won't let me do the painting, alas, I asked.)
Good to see you again, DW, I've been missing your smutty innuendo :-)
*nods* Yes, exactly. It's why I label myself queer specifically. All that means is that I don't fit the "usual" labels. It's a word that I've identified with since before I knew I fancied women and one that I don't think I'll ever not identify with, wherever on the sexuality and gender scales I end up at along the way.
That makes sense and it's a real pity. A lot of it really is an issue of serious education, which I know here in the U.S. at least doesn't usually get covered until university courses and even then sometimes only in the race or gender studies classes. Which people usually have to choose to take. I don't know that a day-long seminar or what-have-you can do the trick.
Even then some people just won't be able to comprehend why telling the rape joke or the dyke joke or the Pakistani joke or whatever is actually harmful. The social perceptions are buried too deeply to understand that increasing other people's privileges does not restrict one's own (except for the privilege to be a shit-talker without being called on it).
Cripes.
*nods* Yeah.
Oh god, the rape joke... I can stand a lot (even the gay jokes, to a point, or the racist jokes, though I WILL take anyone to task on them and have, about a gazillion times) but the rape jokes. I just don't get how you joke about something like that. I've never experienced it (thank anything holy or unholy for that) but I've seen the consequences firsthand. It is NOT something you joke about. Ever.
The few times anyone has, I just... Gawked at them in horror. I just... No.
As for labels... Bi suits me just fine. I've never been attracted to anyone trans, not that I mind them, at all, I've met some really cool people who are, but I just don't feel the attraction. Same as I've never been seriously attracted to a completely straight woman or a completely gay man. I think it's a thing about compatible pheromones.
Point of interest; My last ex boyfriend thought it was the most awesome thing ever that we could look at hot women together :P
I mentioned this over in my comment in the last post (which was way after the party was over) but... I don't understand what it's like to just be attracted to one or the other any more than you get what it's like to be attracted to both. THIS. So very true for me as well.
Hi Ginnyvos,
I think, like with so many things, people joke about what scares them - what is too massive to comprehend, maybe? I don't know.
I mean, I can't say I've ever heard anyone joke about rape - but then, the people I'm surrounded by are mainly trained to deal with it, so I suppose it's a bit different.
And yeah, sometimes comments and posts move fast here. But dive in whenever. John and I always get the emails, and some others, I presume, get email notifications too. That or they refresh like demons - I've never asked.
Anyway, thanks for joining in. The more the merrier and all.
some others, I presume, get email notifications too. That or they refresh like demons
A little from column A, a little from column B... :)
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