16 November 2012

Step beside the piece of the circumstance


Right, now peace has (sort of) descended, after Sherlock stealing one of my books for his own intellectual gain.... I shall attempt to write this entry and think about my presentation.

So...sorry, I can't even remember who asked about first responders (by which I don't mean medical first responders - I mean the first officers on the scene of a homicide/attempted.)

John is now laughing because he's reading chapter titles form my book.

Bet he wishes I'd brought home the snappily titled: "Template Protocol for the management of detainees who are suspected of swallowing or having packed drugs or foreign objects into body orifices or cavities"

Anyway...


yes, whoever it was, the very first priority is to establish if the 'body' is really dead. It becomes incredibly embarrassing for all concerned if they are discovered to be alive after an officer's been reeling out crime scene tape for half an hour and drinking tea given to them by locals and not rendering first aid.

So you always get a contaminated scene, basically. What the officers need to know is how to preserve it as best as possible. So, for instance, establishing a single entry/exit and walkway. Sketching/photographing the scene before moving things. Noting where the things were moved to. Starting the Crime Scene Log. ensuring no one enters the scene without protective clothing.

If the victim is still alive, then someone travelling to hospital with them, in case they can identify their attacker, or note a dying declaration (which can be used in court.) Preserving their clothes, getting a pre-transfusion blood sample preserved for evidence. If they die on the way to hospital/in hospital, making sure all the medical equipment used is left in place and not removed.

Obviously, there's lots to talk about, hence them wanting me to run a presentation!

But ask away, if you have specific questions.

I'm going to put Sherlock to bed...

Oh, and just to add - please sign this petition. The law they are trying to pass is completely horrific. If John and I were to live in Nigeria when this bill was passed we could be sentenced to death, just for being us. Jailed for ten years, just for living together, or holding hands, or wishing to be married. Please help people not as lucky as we are.  www.allout.org/nigeria-veto 

54 comments:

John H. D. Watson said...

embarrassing for all concerned if they are discovered to be alive after an officer's been reeling out crime scene tape for half an hour and drinking tea

This hasn't actually happened to you, has it?

Greg Lestrade said...

It has happened on a case where I was SIO.

Happily the FME wasn't busy that night. He was just establishing that one of our two corpses was not, in fact, quite so corpse-like as had been assumed when I turned up.

He did die later, though. Officers involved did not exactly cover themselves in glory.

John H. D. Watson said...

Oh dear. Not good.

Greg Lestrade said...

Yeah. It is hard, though, when there's blood everywhere and it's dark and you don't know if someone's still nearby... but there's really no excuse once you've established you're not in any immediate danger yourself. Some PCs are scared of contaminating the scene, moving the body...but you have to weigh up the chances. Unless someone's missing their head or something you've got to do a thorough check.

This guy was in what normal people would call a coma. But what the law terms as 'a settled and hopeless expectation of death', which, frankly, sounds worse to me. Never woke up. Family turned off the life support.

Small Hobbit said...

So does this mean that you have to assume someone is not dead unless it's clearly obvious that they are?

Greg Lestrade said...

yeah, I always think it's best to approach it that way. Especially now medical science is so amazing.

Greg Lestrade said...

(but likewise, we have to treat every missing person, serious assault etc. as if it IS murder until we can establish that it isn't.)

Small Hobbit said...

Sorry, posted that at the same time. I remember our (fairly useless) first aid training saying that we should assume they're still alive.

Greg Lestrade said...

Yeah - there's a reason only a few people are allowed to issue death certificates - the rest of us aren't trusted to! :)

pandabob said...

That law is awful :-(

Good luck with your presentation, when is it? and did you remember not to work this weekend?

Greg Lestrade said...

In December. And yes! I'm most definitely not working this weekend. Not even on call! :)

pandabob said...

I didn't think you'd be allowed to forget but that is brilliant! Enjoy your time all together :-)

Greg Lestrade said...

thanks - I'm sure we will! Hope you have a good weekend too. - All of you!

Jaws said...

The paramedics I was with have really strict rules on how you can prescribe death: a doctor can, decomposition, decapitation (head more than 30cm away from body). Everything else is presumed still hope of being alive and you continue treatment, a bloody good idea on a general principle, less good if you're the only trained person on board a flight and have to do CPR for 2 hours straight (not me but someone I know)

It was me who asked, and that's really interesting! thanks for responding so completely :)

Greg Lestrade said...

Yeah, certain paramedics here can pronounce death, but much more often it's the police surgeon or pathologist. Depends who we've called in.

And yes, I think TV gives a very bad indication of how tiring performing CPR is.

There are five initial 'building blocks' for an investigation - the top row is 'preserve life, preserve scene', the bottom is 'secure evidence, ID victim, ID suspect'.

So my presentation is a bit about that, and a bit about treating other scenes of crime - abduction, no-body crime scenes, drugs deaths, infant deaths - that sort of thing, as murders from the outset, and preserving evidence accordingly.

Sherlock said...

I'm sorry for taking the book and I won't again I'll ask.

pandabob said...

Good morning Sherlock, well done. :-)

I hope you have a lovely day having fun.

Sherlock said...

We're on the way to the bike place for riding ALL AFTERNOON UNTIL IT"S DARK.

Anon Without A Name said...

That's a very nice apology Sherlock, well done.

And the bike place ALL afternoon? How wonderful!

Mycroft - I hope you have a lovely weekend at home :-0

Greg Lestrade said...

At a very muddy bike place. This could be a lot of fun!

Anonymous said...

Did you bring dry clothes to change into? I hope it's not too cold!

And it sounds like a very interesting book, Sherlock, but I'm happy you'll ask next time. I'm guessing that Lestrade wouldn't have brought it home if he didn't need to be reading it himself this time, and if you ask next time he can probably let you read it when he doesn't need it right away.

rsf

Greg Lestrade said...

We bought plenty of spare clothing, and towels for showering.

Didn't need to read the book as much as make sure I was referring to the right chapter numbers so I didn't look like a numpty. Sherlock said it was boring, anyway.

Right, now we're all ready and had a go on the little track, John and I are off onto the woodland track.

Nicky said...

I hope you're all having a great day!

Orio, I know you'll have been far too busy riding to notice - but Arsenal won 5-2. Was that why you were thinking about Ttid? I hope he's crying in his cell!

I hope you have a lovely weekend at home, Mycroft. If John or Orio call then maybe we can come and visit for a weekend when your term has ended?

toomerrymaiden said...

Got to say that the score on that match relative to Ttid had been making me smile as well!

Lancs. Anon

Greg Lestrade said...

Bloody brilliant!

I am soaked in mud from arsehole to earhole. And beyond. I can't even see John. just a John shaped mud-yeti.

jaws said...

I hope he's not as hairy as a yeti!

Does Mycroft ever get muddy? He seems to be so dignified the mud just avoids him :)

Mycroft said...

I did get muddy today, although not nearly as much as John and Lestrade.

They give you all of the clothing to wear though, and you can shower afterward.

Greg Lestrade said...

John has showered, yet still has mud in his ears.

Ears.

The things which you keep INSIDE your helmet.

Sometimes I wonder about him...

John H. D. Watson said...

What? I can't hear you...

Greg Lestrade said...

WHAT? (Is this what we'll be like when we're old. Both talking to ourselves because the other can't hear?)

(Sherlock also has mud in his ears, hair, pants.... between his toes...but that was to be expected.)

pandabob said...

You sound like you've had a great time, I'm glad it was as much fun and as muddy as expected :-)

John H. D. Watson said...

It'll be all right, we can just ride the bikes a lot and use the helmet mics as hearing aids...

Sherlock can end up coated in mud from a simple trip to the park.

Anonybob - it was great. :)

Greg Lestrade said...

I know he can - he has, afterall, managed to get muddy, shower, and somehow get muddier...


I think we need to conduct a scientific experiment as to why I always seem to fall off to my left - luckily the mud was soft enough that drowning was more of a problem than bruising! Except for when the bike fought back :)

It was great. So much fun.

Sherlock said...

Lestrade helped me make Bee Biscuits because I was good! They're in the oven now. They smell nice and we're going to put chocolate on them.

I went on the back of Lestrade's bike and I AM BIG ENOUGH whatever anyone says and I went really fast on my quad bike.

pandabob said...

Yay to biscuits :-) well done you for being good enough to get to make them.

I'm glad you had fun Sherlock.

Greg Lestrade said...

You're...nearly big enough. Not quite yet. I need to be totally sure you'll be okay on the road.

But you were very good and patient even though I know you were really excited.

Now, we should get chocolate on these biscuits before John eats them all...

John H. D. Watson said...

I'll wait to eat them all until after you get the chocolate on.

Mycroft said...

Are we still going to cook a pheasant tomorrow?

Greg Lestrade said...

you bet your life we are.

I'm not a pheasant plucker, but a pheasant plucker's son.... ;)

Mycroft said...

Lestrade is now singing. Sherlock is doing a pheasant plucking dance.

Anon Without A Name said...

Thank you for giving us that image, Mycroft :-)

Greg Lestrade said...

John is rolling his eyes so hard his whole head may roll off any second.

But I haven't sung it wrong....yet....

(For those who don't know it - 'I'm not a pheasant plucker, but a pheasant plucker's son, and I'll not stop plucking pheasants until the pheasant plucking's done'... now try saying that fast three times.

...like Sherlock is...

I feel a Nanny Glare coming my way.

John H. D. Watson said...

Fortunately the worst he's said yet is phleasant flutter... Still, I know who to blame if he introduces the song to his class.

Anonymous said...

I'm not the pheasant plucker
I'm the pheasant plucker's mate,
I'm only plucking pheasant's
Cos the pheasant plucker's late

Ah, the old ones are the old ones!

Lancs. Anon

Greg Lestrade said...

..I can give you a personal rendition of the 'dance' when you do say it wrong later.... ;)

We have quite a lot of melted chocolate. Who votes we mix in cornflakes and have those too??

Sherlock said...

MEEEE

Anonymous said...

Chocolate is surprisingly good on potato chips too. Crisps, that is.

Sherlock, did you get mud in your teeth, too?

And that's a lovely tonguetwister, L.

rsf

Sherlock said...

YES I got it EVERYWHERE and in my hair and my nose too!

Anonymous said...

I hope it was the good tasting kind, then!

What part of the ride did you like best? Did you get a chance to ride behind Lestrade at the bike place for practice or do you need to wait a little longer? Congratulations on being almost big enough to ride pillion on the roads!

rsf

Greg Lestrade said...

He did have a go on the back. I'm just not sure he's up to going on the back on the roads yet.

pandabob said...

dare I ask about the poll? flavour of something?

John H. D. Watson said...

Only one other person voted for ginger?

Greg Lestrade said...

I'm seeing 3 votes for Ginger...

AnonyBob...something like that.

Anonymous said...

What's the palate equivalent to open-minded? Open-mouthed sounds a bit... wrong! Anyway, I'll eat almost anything; I always like to try new things on a menu and I'm not very fussy! The only thing I actively dislike is ginger! I just... it's spicy but sweet and altogether odd! It's just wrong as a foodstuff!

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